You don’t have to fight for English instruction for your children that’s of standard with their English-speaking peers, you don’t face discrimination and bias every day of your life, people don’t look at you as a minority when you go for a job or housing, and you don’t get bashed just because you’re a white heterosexual male. Ad infinitum.

IN YOUR FACE means what it means – BE OUT, BE LOUD, AND BE AUTHENTIC – something most of us have been unable to do. I know I’m not willing to let another moment pass being anything other than what I am nor allowing anyone to tell me to simmer down there Missy because I’m pissed. I don’t want to dialogue with them, it’s not worth my time.

And, what I’ve repeatedly told you is that I’m not going to do what you want because you want it or think it’s the thing to do. You haven’t walked in my shoes. Nor will you.

I am not part of the world you are addressing, but I am part of the world whose minds you want to change. Mine has been, and I truly want to see the goals you are pursuing achieved. Since I see the world at least partially through the same glasses that some of the people you are discussing, I do feel I can offer a little insight.

At point, I want to discuss my opposition to the “in their face” comment. I am in no way saying you shouldn’t be out, I am in no way saying you shouldn’t be proud, and since we can’t discuss this face-to-face, I have no way of ascertaining your intentions by the “In-your-face” comment.

You see, I hate it when people get in my face, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. For example, I am pro-life, but you’ll never see me protesting in front of a clinic, and certainly not block the access to one. If someone is standing in the park with their sign or their banner, and if that banner is not hateful or graphic, I have no problem with that person – and I don’t care if that person is pro-life or pro-choice. They are exercising their opinion is a respectful way. But, if that person is screaming and yelling, if they are displaying gruesome images – again, regardless of the side of the argument they are on – this is what I consider “In your face”, and it turns me off.

Okay, who cares if it turns me off or not? Fair enough, but what is your ultimate goal, to get court approval for same sex marriage, or to actually get a vast majority of people to accept same sex marriage? Being in Iowa, and having just moved from California, I have a unique position to be involved with those in a state that has just passed gay marriage and one that has denied it. And as you may guess, there were a number of people in Iowa upset with the ruling, and it was talk show fodder for some time.

Now every time I’m listening to talk radio, especially when I’m listening to liberal talk radio, I cringe when a conservative caller comes on the line. Is she or he going to have an intelligent argument or comment, or are they going to sound like a knuckle-dragger. Like it or not, at that time in that place, that person is representing your side. And as the debate raged her in Iowa following the Supreme Court decision, I expected to hear a lot of those knuckle-draggers defending “traditional” marriage, and I did, but surprisingly few. Actually, a number of them made a great argument, not about whether same sex marriage is right or wrong, but whether or not the bench can legislate law. Not surprisingly, gay right supporters in Iowa think the Supreme Court is the final word, BUT not so much in California.

However, what really surprised me was the number of pro-gay marriage callers who were in fact the knuckle-draggers. Honestly, I think an “All we are looking for is equal rights, and what harm will this do” argument goes a long way. It may not convince those on the other side, but at least it opens the door for a civil dialogue, and as you know the first step towards changing a mind is getting them to listen.

But a surprisingly large number of these calls came from the “You God Damn self-righteous bible-thumpers have your head up your ass, and…..” well, it gets worse from there. THIS, is what I consider “In Your Face” protesting, and while I’m sure it didn’t convert any of the “God hates faggots” group, it probably pushed a few of those leaning to your side over the fence in their directions.

My advice comes to try to help you, BUT because it comes from a conservative, it is immediately attacked. The difference I am seeing between myself (not all conservatives, not all Republicans – of which I am not by the way – Just ME) and most of the readers on this site is I am trying to see the other side, trying to understand where that person is coming from. I’m not looking to agree with them, just to know where they stand, and yet the supposedly enlightened left has jumped down my throat, called me names, and misrepresented most of what I’ve said in my comments. Hell, here I am writing an explanation and apology for a comment that I left PRAISING your article.

I hate those on my side who think OUR hate is justified and the left’s isn’t, AND I hate those on the left who complain about the tactics on the right, and then turn around and use them themselves. Call me crazy, but I think REAL progress comes from both sides listening to each other and talking.

And, true to form, I do have one complaint to register, so get those poison pens out folks. In response to Rebecca you stated “I have a father who still believes everyone gets what he doesn’t have because of their gender/color. Sad really, but that’s the way he was raised”, and yet in your reply to me you state I “have lived a life of white privilege “. How is that different from your father? Oh, I know how it’s different, but you and he are both saying these people are where they are because of their color.

White Privilege? Sure, I’ll admit there are some “advantages” to being born white in America. It’s not right, but I’m not denying it exists. But that argument only gets you so far. Hell, I think a black child born in a middle class neighborhood to two parents has a hell of a lot better shot than a white kid born poor to a single mother. If all it took to get ahead in this world was being white, I want you to explain that to all of the other “White Privilege” kids I grew up with, some of who are wealthy and “successful” and many of whom are lower middle class, upper lower class, or worse.

And explain it to my friend Ramon, whose parents came over (legally) from Mexico, who was raised dirt poor, and whose father died when he was nine. Ramon is now a professor of Accounting in the California State School System.

And besides, who did I have privilege over? I grew up in the same town you did, all white, with 1400 students at the high school, including one black kid, two Korean kids, and two half-Mexican kids – all of whom went on to very productive lives.

Those straight people who bash gays, who vote Yes on ridiculous propositions that deny rights to adult citizens that others enjoy, those who pressure gay parents out of PTAs, who try to move books to shelves where they can’t be used, and other equally outrageous behaviors are not the ones we are messaging to with this article.

By living life fully out and participating in our communities, we change minds. It’s peaceful and it’s progressive. But, it’s not going to kowtow to those who want us to wait, who want us to “let time make the change or who would keep me from my forward movement even if they don’t agree with my method.

I do wish you would stop pulling out the same rhetoric everytime I write something about BEING OUT and LOUD and PROUD. For some reason, it pokes you. And, like I’ve said before, I’m not going to change my message, because I know for a fact it works. Not everything written on a blog has a message for the entire world.

The message is written to the audience I’ve established. Should someone who is not part of that realm wants to wander in and cause trouble (and I’m not referring to you), like they’ve done on my other blogs, well, then, I will address them in the way I see fit. They do not come for conversation, they come to cause trouble.

So, what I’m saying is that while I understand you have an opinion here, you are not gay nor of color and have lived a life of white privilege (the mere fact you are part of no disenfranchised group is the privilege)and I am not speaking to you with this article. So, ratchet down a little, huh?

So in a “world of progress”, is it okay to hate someone because of their color? No. Is it okay to hate someone because of their sexual orientation? No. Is it okay to hate someone because of their political beliefs? No, well, unless they disagree with your own. Look, I have no problem with you calling out the right for some of the bullshit they pull, but refusing to call out the left for their bullshit basically takes away your credibility.

There are wide variations out there between people and their beliefs. Some people have beliefs different from your own, and some of those beliefs are toxic and harmful. But just because someone disagrees with you, dosent put them in that category. You want to rally against hate, then great. I’m right there with you. But if you only want to see the hate that is on the other side of the fence, and ignore it in your own backyard, you’re only addressing half the problem.

As for the politicians themselves, don’t fool yourself into thinking there’s a damn bit of difference between the republicans in Washington, and the Democrats. There are a handful of good people in each party, and a pot load of haters and worthless beings.

Webster defines progress as moving forward. Sticking to the same old partyline bullshit is NOT progress

It always strikes me as odd finding myself from a state that consistantly elects officials on basis of ability, performance, and character rather than ‘party’. I vote regularly for our GOP Senators and DEM/Indy Congresspersons & governors. I do like most here do, weigh the candidate’s qualities and shortcomings and choose the lesser evil of those being offered.

Another thing I find ironic is that so many of the most hateful, vocal, bigoted, and defensive folks are alway wont to profess their adherance to a religion based on love, peace, and acceptance of all that even draws its name from that of one of the most liberal historical figures of all time. I guess there’s truth in the words “Jesus wept”. Again, I see little difference between blind followers of ANY religion or dogma, but that’s only my personal view.

To my simple mind it’s easy to see what I should do: treat others as I would have others treat me as much as I’m humanly able. Every time you exclude another who deserves inclusion (my criteria is they not be hatefilled, judgemental, or evil of thought & deed) the empty space left behind is quickly filled with vileness and disdain for others. Not my original thoughts, just some I borrowed from from many religions, philosophers, and folks far wiser than myself.

I have to say that while it’s true the “mainstream” conservative may be more subtle, certainly less extreme and violent but to deny that they are any less content with leaving us out of the “mainstream” as much as any “fringer” is just you kidding yourself. The two may be different in the extremism of the actions but if they were all that fundamentally different in basic ideology then the “mainstream” would already be more inclusive. It isn’t more inclusive because the mainstream conservative and the conservative fringer are cut from the same ideological cloth. Some of us see that connection and feel we have every right to speak how we feel about it, wherever we see it, to whatever degree.

Yes, there is something you could say about everyone if you wish, and it’s true some people are crazier than others, but to say this issue is not also firmly rooted in “mainstream conservatism” is simply delusional. You might do well to recognize that it is you who are going on beyond Mike’s words in his comment to make whole assumptions about his personal stereotypes because his basic statement as he makes it is spot on.

kim g.

I thought that was a wonderful piece. Growing up in the same town that you did, I too saw some of what you speak of, although I have seen far uglier as well. And you are absolutely right, these are beliefs that are learned, either through direct instruction, or more often than not failure to point out why it is wrong when these comments are made. There are two instances that stick out in my mind. First, in college I was dating a girl from East Waterloo, and one night was invited to have dinner with her family. They appeared to be nice, solid blue-collar, down-to-earth folks, and all through dinner I was enjoying the experience. After dinner we were sitting in the living room, and her father pulled out the photo albums (oh the joy). Being raised to be polite, I feigned interest in the family history, and when we got to the photo’s of dad in World War II, I actually became more interested, asking him about his experiences.

“What did you do” I asked, to have him reply “I drove a transport truck. I was the one that had to truck all of those niggers around”. As if that wasn’t bad enough, his wife sighed, as if feeling sorry that her poor husband had to be in the company of “those people”. Now in all the time I had been dating this girl, she had never said or done anything to lead me to believe she was racist. We had even spent time with a good friend of mine and his wife, he being black and she being white, and she had never commented on the arrangement, so her silience at her fathers remarks hurt me the most. I was hoping that later as I was taking her home she would at least apologize for her parents ignorant behavior, but she didn’t even seem to give it a second thought. This was the lasty time I saw her.

But the worst experience for me was when I was in South Carolina. I had flown there for a business trip, and was riding into the resort I was staying at from the airport, about a 45 minute drive. The southern gent driving the van was chatty, pointing out all of the sites. I one point we drove past a small town, to which the gentleman pointed out “and that over there is niggertown”. It wasn’t his words that shocked me – I have heard this kind of comment before – but rather they way he said it, with no malice or hate whatsoever. He didn’t use that word out of hate, he called them niggers because, well, because that’s just what they are. It sent chills up my spine.

The good news is that we are getting past these kinds of thoughts, whether we be talking about race, or sexual orientation, or whatever. We’re not getting there fast enough, and I am sorry to say that we will never totally eradicate homophobia or racism, but we can continue until it is an insignificant super-minority.

The frustration comes in it taking so long to chip away at the ignorance. It’s great when you can turn someone around, but frustrating when you can’t turn them all around. The good news is, look at the beliefs by age group. I remember after the Prop 8 vote in California seeing a breakdown by age, and, not surprisingly, the higher the age, the more likely to vote for Prop 8. Look at the 18-24 demographic, and it was very much a majority for gay marriage.

I think the important thing to do is look for and celebrate the successes, while all the time working to continue to chip away at the ignorance. I thought your final paragraph was great, discussing the need to be a presence in your society. Most people I know who hate any group, are people that don’t take the time to get to know that group. While I wasn’t what you would call a gay-basher in college, I certainly wasn’t a supporter. Only until I started to meet and get to know several gay people did my mind change. I do disagree with the “in-your-face” comment, only because I take this to mean, well, “in your face”. Look at the picture accompying the article. These are what I consider to be “In your face” people. There are many “in your face” people on the side of many causes I support, and while I support the cause, I hate being around these folks.

And while your words were poignant, I must add that I found the following statement from DangerGirl equally moving: “I think the antidote is to teach peace, and to live it. To be a firm and visible and loving presence in our communities. To fiercely love our partners, our families, our friends, and to pray in our own ways for our “enemies”…that their hearts will open to love too. As has been said so many times before, to BE the change we want to see.” Just Great.

And hey, what would one of my comments be without a complaint. Mike, I must say I was disappointed in the tone of your post, mainly so because I consider you to be an intelligent, thoughtful person. After complaining about how being the member of a minority you were treated, you then launch into a stereotypical republican slam, applying the beliefs of the fringe elements to the mainstream. Is what you say true? Sure, in some cases it is. Is it “mainstream”? Not in the least. Every comment that you made about the right could find a home in the truth, and yet I could find those on the left that do the exact same thing. As one who I’m sure was the victim of false stereotypes, I would think you of all people would be one of the last to resort to these tactics yourself.

I go back once more to the words of DangerGirl: “I think the antidote is to teach peace, and to live it.”